In Conversation with Leo Hickish: EO Journey
Leo Hickish, Chairman and Director at Batcheller Monkhouse, Shares His EO Journey with James Shand at vfdnet.
Q: Before we talk about the transition itself, could you paint a picture of Batcheller Monkhouse before the move to employee ownership — the culture, the team, and where the business was in its lifecycle?
A: We were an equity partnership with six partners and about 120 people. We’d grown quite heavily over 10 or 12 years. The work was an exceptionally wide spectrum, everything from farming through to estate agency, with most of it being property consultancy and estate management. Culturally, we’d modernised a lot in the previous four or five years. We were trying not to be that classic old-fashioned, fusty, top-down bunch of old crusty partners telling everybody how to operate. We did involve people in the business, but there’s only so far you can take that in a partnership model.
Q: When did you start to consider succession and what options did you explore? Was employee ownership always the front-runner?
A: Twice in the last 10 or 15 years we’d questioned whether the equity partnership model was right. People suggested incorporation or becoming an LLP, but we couldn’t see financial benefits, and it didn’t address the fundamentals of a privately owned business. And we were never going to sell. It’s not the sort of business you build and sell on the open market. We’ve never wanted to take over the world. We wanted to stay a strong regional player. Culture was important. We always said, could we still get the people running the business around a dining table once a month and not kill each other? That mattered to us. We like each other!
We’d gently absorbed a couple of small firms over the years, but big isn’t beautiful in our sector. So, we looked again, because I’m the wrong side of 60 and I’ve got to retire at some point. I can’t quite remember where the conversation started, but I’d clearly heard something about EOTs. James and I spoke around August or September last year. He knew what he was talking about, did an initial report, we consulted over Christmas, and eventually pressed go in February this year. It seemed to achieve everything we wanted.
Q: What was it about the Employee Ownership Trust model that made it feel like the right path? What boxes did it tick for you?
A: A big one was removing the need for capital in the business. The amount needed had risen so high it was not within easy reach of a 38–40-year-old interested in partnership. It was important to have the right people in position, not just those with the money to invest.
Unlimited liability never fussed me personally, but newer partners and their families found it anxious. Removing that helped.
There was also the issue that when someone left, they had an absolute right to their capital back over two or three years. A number of our partners had retired in recent years which caused some challenges in cash flow management.
But those weren’t the defining factors. The defining factor was the collaborative approach. Getting more people engaged, taking pride, sharing the load. Unlocking potential. It’s a funny world where quick decision-making really matters. And I’ve always liked the leadership phrase: ‘Trust your team’s judgement and allow them to take ownership of their work.’ This sums up our approach and the shared leadership style we practice at Batcheller Monkhouse now.
There was also legacy. Tom Bodley Scott and I had set up the professional side of the business in 2002 and had since helped take the firm to new heights. I didn’t want to see it crash and burn. We’re a people business. If people didn’t feel comfortable in the old structure, they could all be poached and the whole thing would disintegrate. I’ve seen it happen.
Q: At what point did you have your first proper exit-strategy conversation with James, and when did it go from “could this be the answer?” to “let’s start the transition”?
A: It was in September last year when James and I had a conversation. James clearly knew what he was doing, produced the feasibility report, we digested it over Christmas and then pressed go early in the new year. It felt like the only vehicle that achieved what we wanted.
It wasn’t straight to becoming employee-owned, as we were a partnership, we first had to transition to being incorporated, then EO. This was however, almost simultaneous but did greatly add to the workload.
Q: What were the tricky bits along the journey that made you feel relieved to have James and the expert team guiding you?
A: Presenting to the equity partners in February or March was a big anxious moment. We needed 100% agreement. I’d had initial conversations, but you still worry whether they’ll get it. They did get it pretty quickly. But at that stage you only know the rough shape of the plan. Having James there who could answer questions and work alongside me to present was a big support.
The regulatory side was dreadful. Banking was the worst. We’d been with the bank for 30 years but, as we were incorporating first, we had to open new accounts. Their compliance team treated us like a complete start-up. That delayed incorporation by at least a month. It took four months to get new accounts set up. We had around 30 client accounts that had to be migrated. It was bureaucracy beyond belief. The relationship manager was embarrassed, but it was just the bank’s internal dysfunction.
The FCA was equally bad. Only a very small part of our work is FCA regulated and yet it took our general manager several days to complete the application. They still came back asking for another 14 sections of information.
Then you’ve got the complicated stuff like deferred consideration. Trying to understand how it works when you’re not an accountant. Helping directors understand moving from self-employed to employed after decades. It was a big change. That all had to be dealt with carefully.
Q: How did James and the wider team help steer you through those moments?
A: It varied by stage. The to-do list ended up being 150 items long, with sub-actions underneath. James helped kept that updated. We had weekly catch-ups early on. James was steering the ship with Will.
James brought in Christian Wilson on the legal side, with Sonia Bassett handling the incorporation, and another colleague working on the TUPE and director contracts. There was a lot of financial understanding wrapped up inside the legal work, especially around deferred consideration. James reviewed most of the paperwork and was the linchpin.
But you can’t dump the whole job on an external team. There were vast amounts of internal work, internal information, internal decisions. It was imperative that we were closely engaged in every step of the journey
Q: Did you have concerns going into the process? What helped you move past them?
A: Keeping the six equity partners comfortable. They were all involved to a degree but making sure they all fully understood it and were happy was a big job.
And what I know now about how an EOT works compared to what I knew in March is wildly different. The mindset shift is enormous.
Joining the Employee Ownership Association in the summer was incredibly useful. We found being able to speak with other businesses that had made this transition immensely helpful. We could ask silly questions. We learnt a lot about what comes after transition and what structures we’d need. I asked questions about the trustee structure.
Q: Looking back, what do you now know that you wish you had known at the start?
A: That the real work starts after you sign the documents.
We should have started conversations with other EOT businesses earlier through the EOA.
The mindset piece is absolutely fundamental. Luckily, we weren’t a dictatorial firm, but if we had been, this would have been ten times harder.
Q: What did you find most challenging as a leader through the transition?
A: Letting go and allowing others to take responsibility. Making sure the founders weren’t stuck in the mud. Managing change across five locations. Keeping dialogue constant.
There was a lot of soul-searching around governance, trustees, and whether I should step back.
And understanding that, as Chairman of the Board, I absolutely should not be a trustee. You’ve got to trust people.
Q: Could you talk through the process of selecting trustees?
A: Quite complex. We wanted one from agency and one from professional. And we wanted them to be women, because although the firm is 60 percent female, all the equity partners were male.
We found the perfect candidates, one being an ex-lawyer working in our telecoms department and the other an experienced negotiator in our agency department.
Christian gave me a list of independent trustees. I spoke to a few and chose someone with property understanding and EOT experience.
Letting go was the biggest part. You’ve got to trust that the right people will come forward.
Q: You mentioned the mindset shift. What did you learn from joining the Employee Ownership Association?
A: Joining the EOA in the summer was fantastic. I used the Hub to ask questions. It helps you understand how you’ll operate once you become EOT. What it means for training, for communication, for forming the trust, for how you explain things to staff.
James and Leo at the EOA Conference 2025
The first two or three months were all about how to get from here to EOT. But we were late in realising that the 1st of October (when we officially became employee owned) is just where it all starts. There is vast amounts of work afterwards. Hearts and minds stuff and training.
We have regular open mic sessions so anyone can ask me anything. We’re doing these once a month. That’s gone down well.
Q: What would you do differently, knowing what you know now?
A: We should have joined the EOA earlier and started talking to other EOT businesses right at the start. As it provides a better education from day one about what employee ownership actually means.
We were already a collaborative firm, which helped, but for firms that are more traditional in management style, the culture shock would be enormous.
Q: You talked about the real shift being after day one. How did you prepare the wider team before the announcement?
A: We told team leaders in mid-August. They then had a half-day training session with the EOA so they could start to understand the EO mindset and answer questions. We announced to everyone in the last week of August.
You have to tighten all the principles first. We needed the documentation agreed and to be properly educated ourselves before saying anything. You can’t announce it and then not know the answers.
Q: What was the staff reaction? Any moments that really stood out?
A: We undertook a feedback survey after the first month. This is really helpful to how we shape the way forward. The majority of the responses were positive but there were areas of weakness to be address. These were chiefly about how the Trust and the Main Board related to each other and how profits will be shared across the firm.Nobody asked what on earth we’d done. A few expressed concern that they’d be retired before seeing any benefit.
One moment that stood out was after our autumn seminar. We’d been talking about the EOT and later went to the bar. I handed my card over and said the drinks were on me. Someone piped up, no, they’re not, they’re on us! That summed up the shift.
Since then, there are at least a two dozen people who wouldn’t have got involved in wider business matters before, who are suddenly very excited and want to play a part. The relaunch of our professional department committee had far more applicants than we’d ever had. People really get it.
Q: How has employee ownership affected the atmosphere and culture so far?
A: There’s definitely more energy. A third are very excited, a third are getting there, and a third we need to help better understand how this affects them and how they can get involved. That feels about right. The goal for our first year is to massively improve this ratio.
People can see they’ll benefit. Even those who thought they were too small a cog can see it now.
We’re a people business. If people feel part of the direction of travel, it makes a huge difference.
Q: Have you noticed any business benefits yet, such as cross-selling or integration?
A: Yes, that’s already happening. People are coming up with clever ideas about integration and cross-selling. People are thinking beyond their own departments, which is exactly what we hoped.
Q: How are ideas shared internally now? Is there an open forum?
A: Yes. We’ve got agency and professional committees, and the Voice, which is the employee forum. Anyone can put ideas forward through those routes.
We’re redoing our survey every three months to keep the dialogue going. And the open mic sessions are another way for anyone to ask anything.
Q: You mentioned support from other EOT businesses. Can you talk about that?
A: People have been unbelievably helpful. On marketing, PR, structures, the Voice group, all of it. They’re almost evangelical about wanting to help. Nobody’s tried to charge us ten grand for consultancy!
Heidi Black helped us on drafting the constitution for the Voice. Everyone has shared their experience freely.
Q: What changes have you noticed externally among clients, partners or recruitment?
A: In week two, someone rang our Battle estate agency office and said they thought what we’d done was amazing and asked us to come and look at their house. We’re now instructed. They thought it was altruistic and modern.
Clients have been very interested and supportive. No negative comments whatsoever.
Recruitment has been hugely helped. We’re shouting loudly about being employee owned. Two new recruits this week both said it was a big factor. In our world, recruitment is tough, so that stands out.
Q: Did speaking with other partnership-based firms help?
A: Yes. We spoke to firms who’d done it, including a solicitors firm, and a few others. Their stories varied but it was helpful. Some incorporated first and then became EOT a year later. Ours was unusual because incorporation and EOT happened 48 hours apart. But those conversations helped us understand pros, cons and pitfalls.
Q: What would you say to business owners considering employee ownership and wondering if it’s right for them?
A: I’d enthusiastically say they should seriously consider it as an alternative structure and as a vehicle for running a successful business. Whether it’s right for them remains to be seen, but it’s a brilliant option if you care about continuity.
There’s a danger of people seeing EOT as an exit strategy. It can be, but really, it’s a change of philosophy. If someone wants to flog their business and retire, fine. But if you care about the team and the legacy, it’s worth looking at.
Q: What advice or pitfalls would you warn them about?
A: Prepare a very detailed action list from day one. You need at least six months realistically. A full project plan.
There are a million things to think about, from statutory requirements to rollout and communications. Even funny things like deciding job titles post-incorporation. It’s enormous.
And don’t underestimate banking and regulation. They will slow you down.
Use financial and legal advisors with a proven EOT track record. Lots of people say they do EOTs just because they’ve done one. That’s not the same as having done dozens.
Q: What else would you advise to someone starting their EOT journey?
A: Start talking to other EOT businesses immediately. We should have done that in early spring. It would have saved us a lot of time.
Q: Finally, any words you’d like to share with James and the EO experts who supported you?
A: James was absolutely fundamental. He gave us the confidence to start. The initial work he did, the way he briefed us, how he explained the structure, all of that was essential.
James was absolutely fundamental.
Leo Hickish, Batcheller Monkhouse
And he made an excellent recommendation in Christian Wilson, who was brilliant. Having that good team around us made all the difference.
Thank you, Leo, for your honest and insightful answers and sharing your journey from first thought through to a month into employee ownership.